S1E8: The Law of Attraction: ESTJ & ISFJ Compatibility

Brought to you by So Syncd, the first personality type dating app and website.

This week we explore ESTJ and ISFJ compatibility. Steve (ESTJ) and Steph (ISFJ) met five years ago and their first date was potentially the most perfect first date in the history of the world. On their second date, Steph unknowingly had heatstroke and Steve mistook her waning enthusiasm for disinterest but they overcame this minor hurdle and it has been a fairytale ever since. In this episode, they talk about the Law of Attraction, the many things they admire about each other and their ‘non-honeymoon’.

Jess (INFP): Hi, welcome to Personality Love Lab, where we interview real people and real couples to delve deeper into personality types and love.

Lou (ESFJ): This podcast is brought to you by the sisters who created So Syncd, the dating app that matches compatible personality types.

Jess (INFP): My name is Jess. I'm an INFP, also known as The Dreamer.

Lou (ESFJ): And I'm Lou, an ESFJ, also known as The Supporter.

Jess (INFP): Today we have Steve who's 31 and Steph who's 28. They live in Scotland and they've been together for five years. I met Steve at a conference last year and our mutual friend, Michael, described Steph and Steve's relationship as ‘astoundingly stable’, so we're especially intrigued to interview you guys.

Lou (ESFJ): Steve is an ESTJ, also known as a So Dedicated, and Steph is an ISFJ, also known as So Nurturing.

Lou (ESFJ): So how did you guys meet?

Steph (ISFJ): So back in 2014, I had moved to Edinburgh to take a Master's program at the time. I had not been meeting good matches over the year and I had some girlfriends over for a night of making muffins and a wine night and they said, ‘Look, just sign up to an online portal. We'll help you through this.’ I was really hesitant at first, but we ended up meeting on Plenty of Fish.

We met online and I made a rule to myself, because I was really busy at the time, that I'd set specified times to engage with the app. I would wait to check messages that might have come through to me rather than me initiating them, but I broke that rule once. And that was when I came across Steve's profile. It was the only time I broke that [rule], and I just felt this visceral reaction that I had to reach out to this guy…just the way his profile jumped out. So we met online.

Jess (INFP): What was it about his profile that made you feel so strongly?

Steph (ISFJ): There was something about it…well, for one it was really unique. We've saved part of that profile. It was just sort of the language with which he spoke. It was very clever. I can't remember the exact quotes right now, but they were song lyrics and I don't know song lyrics. I didn't realize that they were song lyrics. Just the way he conveyed how confident he was without being cocky. I could see from the words that were there, that he was a family guy, family-oriented and interested in a serious relationship, because I always have been a relationship person.

Lou (ESFJ): Do you remember what you said to him at the time?

Steph (ISFJ): I wish I did. Maybe you do.

Steve (ESTJ): It was a really to-the-point message. I don't remember exactly. We made the mistake of not keeping our profiles long enough to be able to record the communication between us, but it was something around, ‘Hey, just wanted to see if you've answered the chat. If you don't, don't worry about it. I'm sure you'll meet somebody else,’ or something like that. She gave me the option of engaging in the conversation and wished me luck if I didn't want to. It's like, ‘Why would I not? Look at her photos! She's beautiful.’

Jess (INFP): I was going to say, so when Steph reached out, were you like, ‘Ooh, yeah, this is great!’

Steve (ESTJ): Yes. So my story with Plenty of Fish was I tried using it in Aberdeen and it was massively unsuccessful. It just wasn't working out. There was no compatibility with anyone I met through it. Then I moved to Edinburgh and in 2014 and I was meeting quite a lot of people just organically, through events and stuff. Not romantically, but just meeting loads of new folk. I figured, ‘I’m in a new city, I may as well just change the postcode on my Plenty of Fish account. If anyone reaches out great, and if they don't, then nothing lost really. Steph reached out. I think it was within the first two weeks of doing that.

Jess (INFP): That’s really cool. And what was your first date like?

Steve (ESTJ): Our first date was epic. That's the only way to put it. We met at a little place called Devil's Advocate in Edinburgh, and it's tucked away down one of the wee closes, they call them. They're the wee streets that are essentially just staircases that connect other streets in Edinburgh. There is a whiskey bar that's beautiful. I'd gone there for whiskey with Michael, my business partner, a couple of weeks before, so it's somewhere I’d recently discovered. I was like, ‘This would be a cracking first date venue.’ When we agreed to meet up, I thought, ‘Right, that's where it's got to be.’ We’d arranged to get together about half 7 or something. I got there a little bit early to find a seat for us and then Steph was kind of late.

Steph (ISFJ): On purpose!

Steve (ESTJ): Yes, I think she intended to be late, but I think she also didn't intend on getting lost as well! I was sitting there feeling kind of nervous, actually, and then I saw her coming through the door and my first impression was like, ‘Holy shit. Her photos just didn't do her justice.’ So my nervous level went from being like five or six to like 10 almost immediately. We said hi, we sat down and really quickly melted into our own little world. We found ourselves in our own little bubble and the restaurant kind of disappeared around us. And for the rest of the night was just us. The waiter would come up and ask if we needed anything and we'd almost ignore them, not purposefully, but we were just so engrossed in what was happening between us.

Steph (ISFJ): A complete flow state. Just immersed.

Steve (ESTJ): It was amazing. And then we didn't want it to end, but the place was closing, so we beelined and went to a jazz bar. We sort of had two dates in one night and we did drink roulette in the jazz bar where Steph and I would just choose something random for each other. We had a lot of fun there. I then walked Steph almost home, not all the way home, because I didn't want to seem too forward, but close enough. I just remember walking about 20 paces after saying goodbye and just stopping. We were in a place called The Meadows in Edinburgh. It's like a big field and I stopped. I looked up at the sky, there were beautiful stars out. It was an absolutely gorgeous night. And I went, ‘Did that just happen?’ It wasn't until we got engaged that I realized there's another part to this story.

Steph (ISFJ): It was a similar experience on my end. After he left me at the T in the road and went the other way, I was just like, ‘Oh my gosh.’ I remember getting back to my flat a couple of minutes later, sitting down at my desk and I took out my phone. Fortunately, I have a really good relationship with both parents and they knew I'd been out on a date, so I immediately sent them a message that said, ‘I think I just met my future husband.’ I just…I knew. To send that message to my family, that said a lot. For years, some people would say, ‘Oh, you'll know when you know,’ and I'd roll my eyes at them, but this was very much a case of we knew.

Jess (INFP): That literally sounds like the best first date ever.

Steve (ESTJ): Yes! A pretty good outcome.

Jess (INFP): So you just both knew.

Steve (ESTJ): It was one of those moments where we completely clicked. Our second date was three or four days later. We didn't really hang around. We had a few dates in short succession because we just knew we wanted spend time together. Steph had been hanging out with her mates in the sun all day and we were meeting just after work. She was just chilling, I was working. And when I met her, she had heatstroke.

Steph (ISFJ): I didn't know it though, until partway through the date.

Steve (ESTJ): I didn't know it because she didn't say anything, but I don't know if you've ever been on a date with somebody with heatstroke. It feels a bit like being on a date with somebody who's not having very much fun. I was like, ‘Oh no, the first date was absolutely epic,’ and Steph’s energy was all off. I thought I'd messed it up somehow or done something. It's not until after the second date sort of went cold, I thought I would give Steph a couple of days to reply and she was doing the same. We didn't do much in the way of playing the game when first got together but that was the closest. After a couple of days I thought, ‘Right, I'm going to message her,’ and the speed that her reply came back, I knew that I was totally okay.

Jess (INFP): You didn't have anything to worry about.

Steve (ESTJ): No. And it has been solid ever since.

Lou (ESFJ): What first attracted you to each other when you saw each other in the bar that evening. What really stood out for you?

Steve (ESTJ): I’d probably go more abstract than that.

Steph (ISFJ): I mean, physically there was an immediate attraction there, but I think it was more just an energy. When I hugged him, I felt like I was home. There was a sense of comfort and also the topics that we spoke about as well. It was very clear from the get go that we shared similar values. Do you want to touch on that?

Steve (ESTJ): So you said what attracted us to each other, I don't know if you've heard of the Law of Attraction? I don't know, it was within two weeks of meeting Steph and, again, my business partner Michael and I, we were talking about it and he was like, ‘What you need to do is write a comprehensive list describing the person that you want to meet and make it really comprehensive. Don't hold back on anything, go into extreme detail’. I wrote maybe three or four pages of detail describing my ideal partner and the person I wanted to attract. Before we met, Steph had done something similar.

Steph (ISFJ): My parents had come to visit in about March time. We met in June, so March to June of 2015. In Fairy Glen, just off the Isle of Skye, there's this place where you can make a wish. My parents and I visited there and my wish was to attract my future husband. So that happened in March. And then within that period, between that happening and us meeting, Steve had made his list. I mean, I am a scientist by training, but there was very much a spiritual element. It was just so amazing to experience that.

Steve (ESTJ): During the date, one of us (I forget who) mentioned the Law of Attraction and both of us just lost it. We were like, ‘Wait, you know about the Law of Attraction!?’ We were totally freaking out.

Steph (ISFJ): He had a vision board as the screensaver on his phone.

Steve (ESTJ): That’s right.

Jess (INFP): Did you match the exact details? Did you go back and look at the list and were you like, ‘Wow, this is spooky?’

Steve (ESTJ): Yes. It was just uncanny. It was really crazy for me, just going through the exercise and then meeting Steph. As Steph already shared, she knew from the first date that she'd met her future husband. I'm just looking at that list and comparing stuff against it, it just completely validated that, yes, this is the person that I was supposed to attract.

Jess (INFP): And then on your first date, what did you talk about? You said that you just had really, really great conversations and that it was clear that you had similar values. What kind of things did you discuss?

Steph (ISFJ): I think the Law of Attraction, just sort of manifesting what we wanted to professionally. We actually got into quite serious topics quite quickly, I think. We were delving into what we do professionally and what we want to aspire to. We're both quite motivated in both of those areas so I think we spent quite a bit of time sharing what we were up to. I was new to the UK at that time and Steve was actually new to Edinburgh as well. We'd been there for a similar time period so we talked a lot about that, but a lot of the conversation focused on similar upbringings in the sense that I grew up on a farm and Steve grew up on similar…well, not a farm, but with sort of gatekeeping, hunting, fisheries and things. We were both the kid that woke up really early to do to the chores and we had very similar family values that we jumped into quite early. And then the Law of Attraction was quite a big conversation. Also, I was studying concussion, I still do, but his father had had a concussion the day before, which was a kid of sad topic to hear, but I was able to help with that conversation.

Steve (ESTJ): We just got lost in conversation.

Jess (INFP): It’s quite a usual thing for ESTJs and ISFJs to take family and relationships quite seriously so it would make sense that you really connected over that.

Lou (ESFJ): When did you first consider yourself a couple?

Steve (ESTJ): There's a story around this as well, as I'm sure there is for everyone. We were just hanging out and where Steph was staying at the time, there was a conservatory to the rear of the property, but it was a ground floor property and we were just hanging out. There's a couch in the conservatory and we were just being silly, as couples do. I realized that there was a window above us and I said to Steph, ‘Imagine if somebody was out there right now, they'd be like, ‘What the hell is that couple up to?’’ Then immediately I was like, ‘Ahh, I used the ‘couple’ word! We've not discussed this yet.’ We then didn't really say anything around it. We both kind of ignored it. It was about two, three, maybe four hours later, we were heading to an allotment that Steph was looking after you and we were walking there. She was quite quiet. I was like, Oh, this is kind of awkward.’ But then she turned to me and she was like, ‘Earlier in the conservatory, you called us a couple. Is that how you see us?’ I was like, ‘Yeah…?’ She was like, ‘Me too!’ And then we just celebrated. From that moment on, we considered ourselves a couple.

Steph (ISFJ): We went and got ice cream and chocolate sauce.

Steve (ESTJ): Celebrated properly. But I think we always did [consider ourselves a couple], you know? Even before we had had that discussion, from the first date we were pretty much just a couple.

Steph (ISFJ): It didn't need to be verbally defined, I guess.

Jess (INFP): Yes. I've had that before where it was just so obvious that we were a couple from really early on and we didn't ever discuss it, but then actually a few months down the line we were getting ready to go to a wedding together. He has like, ‘Just want to check. We are a couple, aren't we?’ I was like, ‘Yes! I’ve considered us a couple for, you know, a good couple of months now.’ I guess you always have to kind of verbalize it, right? Make it official.

Steve (ESTJ): Absolutely. Then celebrate with ice cream.

Jess (INFP): You guys first discovered your personality types this weekend, right? Did you find that you related to the personality test results?

Steph (ISFJ): Absolutely. What we did was we did them [the tests] independently, but then we said, ‘Oh, it'd be interesting for the other person to do it for the opposite.’ So I did for Steve, he did it for me and we got the same [results] as well. I thought that was really interesting in itself. The exact same result twice. Completely independently blind and as we were reading the text, we were like, ‘Yes, yes, you are family-orientated. Yes, yes.’ Also, the strengths and weaknesses really spoke to our personalities as well. It was really enjoyable to go through that process.

Lou (ESFJ): What kind of things do you guys talk about now?

Steve (ESTJ): It's difficult because we've been married for five years, right?

Steph (ISFJ): Two!

Steve (ESTJ): Sorry, we've been together for five years. We've been married two years, but there's nothing that we don't talk about. It’s lockdown and we see each other throughout the day, but we are really starting to invest in and direct mostly what we talk about to around the future. We hope to have a family and, in order to do that, we're thinking about building an extension on our property. That's been consuming quite a lot of time. We've been dreaming and scheming around what the extension might look like and all the other stuff I’m sure couples talk about.

Steph (ISFJ): Lots of silly things as well. We're watching the show Schitts Creek right now. We have our silly side but at the end of the day, as we're winding down, I think a lot of it might be reflecting on what we achieved for the day. We're quite goal-oriented and focused on supporting each other's goals as well. Even though we don't work together, I think we sort of unofficially do, helping to push each other. So that's it, reflecting on a day.

Steve (ESTJ): A lot of what we talk about too is if only everyone that knows us could see us right now, we'd probably not have any friends!

Jess (INFP): We won’t tell! What do you like most about each other's personality?

Steph (ISFJ): Everything. Oh, there's so many ways that I could answer this question. One of them that's popping into my mind right now was that, I really noticed early on, and getting to know Steve as a person, was just how positive he is but also how much he just gets on with things. He might be complaining in his head, but he's not moaning. He's just getting on with it.

What I've found to be quite unique actually was just his ability to always be positive and lift people up, which I thought was amazing. In small groups you might not be gossiping about people, but you might be venting to express some frustrations or something, maybe in a work setting. Steve just doesn't do that. Even as a couple now, he'll say nothing at all or something nice.

I noticed early on in social situations he'll just find a way to reframe things so that they're always positive. I love that part of his personality and perhaps it’s more of a trait or a habit, but it's certainly part of his personality and being. I love that about him. And just how ambitious he is as well.

Steve (ESTJ): Really glad this is a podcast because otherwise people would see me blushing right now! One of the things I first noticed about Steph, particularly when we started hanging out in groups and introducing her to my friends or I was around her friends is that Steph is a listener in a group. She won't say much but not because she's shy, because she's really genuinely listening. Often, she'll let something either run its course or come to a point where people have been just running away with what they're saying and not really thinking about it, but she's absorbing it. At the end she'll step in, tie it all together and frame it in such a cool, positive and enthusiastic way that everyone engages with. I can imagine her at meetings, work and things just being there at the table, just absorbing. Steph would be the anchor that pulls it all back and distils it for the room in such a way that is really concise and beautifully packaged. She's super good at that.

She's an excellent communicator and is really aware of what's happening in a room. She reads a room beautifully. I'm terrible at reading a room and she'll often kick me under the table when she needs to in order to straighten me up. That's one of her big things.

One of the things I love most, and it sort of echoes a little bit of what Steph said, but it's her enthusiasm and her ability to make everyone feel like everything is okay. One of the ways she does that, and I think it's so special, is she'll ask the room, ‘What was the best part of your day?’ I think that's such an excellent question that everyone always responds to and engages with. It's not an opportunity to complain about the crappy parts, it's like, ‘Let's leave them to the side right now. Let's focus on the positives,’ because every day, no matter how bad any day is, there's always a positive to extract.

Jess (INFP): That's interesting what you said about Steph being able to read a room. If you delve deeper into the personality type model, you have these things called cognitive functions, which are mental processes, and the second cognitive function that ISFJs use is something called extraverted feeling. It's all about being aware of other people. It’s very good at reading other people, very good at knowing what should be said, knowing how to make people happy and that kind of thing. It's a cognitive function where you actually absorb other people's emotions quite often. I don't know if that happens to you? Like if someone next to you is sad, do you feel sad as well?

Steph (ISFJ): Yes. It's massively draining sometimes. I really absorb the strength of the room or even in an office, if someone's having a bad day, I feel that as well. That's certainly interesting. I didn't know that. Steve does a good job. I'm very open book and I probably overshare when I'm stressed. I think he does a good job of receiving that stress with his personality.

Steve (ESTJ): I’m pretty empathetic when it comes to absorbing energy as well, so although I try not to show it, definitely if Steph is stressed, I notice it affects me massively.

Lou (ESFJ): What would you change about each other's personality?

Jess (INFP): If anything.

Steve (ESTJ): We have often thought about this because it is a question that will come up before, you know, playing games with other couples of whatever. We're more about how can we bring out the best in each other's personalities and how can we support each other to evolve, grow and get to the next levels.

Steph (ISFJ): Absolutely. I’d definitely second that as well. I mean, in our relationship, we've not had what I'd consider a full-blown fight. I think we're good at de-escalating things. I mean, like any couple, there's things that we bicker about, but it's always de-escalated so quickly and almost professionally, I guess, in a weird way! No, it isn't professionally, but sort of how you envision something being quite diplomatic. In terms of small things or big things with personality, I can't think of anything in particular other than helping each other to grow to the next level, as Steve's already detailed.

Jess (INFP): It sounds like you've had a pretty smooth relationship, but are there any challenges that you’ve faced in your relationship or just as a couple in general?

Steve (ESTJ):  No challenges that we’ve faced. Our relationships has never been rocky. We're each other's best friend. That is just is how it is and I think it always will be, but we've definitely gone through challenges as a couple which have helped us grow together.

Steph (ISFJ): One example is we seem to have a habit of taking everything on at once. In a span of about four weeks, I submitted a thesis, defended a thesis…

Steve (ESTJ): You were doing a pHD.

Steph (ISFJ): Yes, so I finished that and then got married a week later. Steve finished planning our wedding and soon after we decided to buy a house. Not because there was any rush, it was just we saw opportunities to do these things and they happened to all fall at once. We didn't plan it that way! It was a massive stress.

Steve (ESTJ): We had or honeymoon six months after our wedding and because there was so much packed together on the run up to our wedding, we figured that we would give ourselves six months to clear our feet and clear our calendars, make sure that we could be nice and relaxed on our honeymoon. And on our honeymoon, the week before we had had had an offer accepted on a house, which was a total fixer-upper, which we weren't intending to do. We couldn’t use the bathroom. The bathroom was a complete wreck so we scrambled to get plumbers in and choose a full bathroom suite. The bathroom was completely gutted. This all happened whilst we were on honeymoon, so we were dealing with plumbers and builders trying to get in contact with us throughout the day. They were WhatsApping us videos saying, ‘What do we do with this? Can we move this?’ Or whatever.

Steph (ISFJ): You were closing the funding round.

Steve (ESTJ): Yes, through the business we were closing a funding round, so on my end I was getting questions from the team, asking where certain files were and whether I'd be willing to join a call at certain time on a certain day. Michael and I were also running another business that we were really looking to sell and we were in advanced discussions with a potential buyer at that time too. That was all time critical. So the crux and the main point is: I think I owe Steph another honeymoon!

Jess (INFP): Exactly!

Lou (ESFJ): Final question: what are you guys most looking forward to in your future together,

Steph (ISFJ): Just growing and growing together and seeing what happens. As Steve mentioned earlier, we do hope to have a family one day, but there's no defined timeline on this. Just sort of enjoying each other's company and seeing what happens over the next couple of years, both personally and as a team as well. I think we are a couple, but we’re best friends and teammates as well.

Steve (ESTJ): Absolutely. We both have a bit of a vision of having a greatly place in the country with maybe a field at the back and Steph grew up with horses, so she’s always wanted a horse. One of the things I’m most looking forward to is getting a donkey, just to compliment the horse, but there's a couple of rules around it. Steph has to get the donkey for me for my birthday one year and the donkey is going to be called Lamborghini. I can say from that moment on that Steph got me a Lamborghini for my birthday.

Jess (INFP): Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I have to say, it sounds like Michael was very right. Your relationship does sound astoundingly stable.

Steve (ESTJ): That's such a Michael thing to say. Thank you for having us on. It's been a lot of fun.

Steph (ISFJ): Thank you so much.

Lou (ESFJ): Thank you for listening to Personality Love Lab. If you're in a relationship and would like to be featured on our podcast, please email us at hello@sosyncd.com. The email address can also be found in the show notes.

Jess (INFP): And if you're single, sign up to So Syncd for free today to find your compatible personality type. You can download So Syncd from the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store. We'll see you next week!