S2E6: Intellectual Attraction: ENTJ & ENTP Compatibility

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You can listen to the full episode of our podcast on Personality Love Lab, Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

We explore ENTJ and ENTP compatibility with Nate and Cally. Nate (ENTJ) and Cally (ENTP) met at university 14 years ago. After some classroom banter, they starter chatting in the hallway, which led to an intellectually stimulating three-hour conversation. In this episode, they talk about how humor and intelligence are the keys to attraction, the stereotypes surrounding NT personality types and how Nate came across as a completely different personality type when they first met.  

Lou (ESFJ): Hi! Welcome to Personality Love Lab, where we interview real couples to delve deeper into the 16 personality types and love.

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Lou (ESFJ): We’re your hosts. I'm Lou, an ESFJ, also known as So Supportive.

Jess (INFP): And I'm Jess, an INFP, also known as So Unique.

Lou (ESFJ): Today on Personality Love Lab we have Cally and Nate from California. They're both 39 and have been together for 14 years.

Lou (ESFJ): Cally is an ENTP, also known as So Visionary, and Nate is an ENTJ, also known as So Ambitious, and this is quite an uncommon pairing, but a really, really great one, which you'll definitely be able to tell from this podcast. To start with, how did you guys meet?

Cally (ENTP): So we met at university and a class that I was helping instruct. And he was one of the students in the class, at age 25, when we met, I was 24. And he was very handsome, of course, but he was one of the smartest. He always raised his hand and knew the answers. And I was like, “Wow!” And I called him, I didn't learn his name, I called him Smart Kid. So I was this glib instructor and he was a smart kid, so I think it was like a couple of weeks of me calling him the smart kid in this class and then finally I was like, “I think he's cute. I better go talk to him.” This was after four weeks of getting to know him through his answers in this particular class. And I went and punched him in the hallway because I don't know how to flirt. And I was like, “Hey Smart Kid!” And then we talked for three hours. So that was how we met. And we talked, we skipped our next class, we both had to go to different classes and then we ended up talking for three hours.

Jess (INFP): Oh, wow! What did you talk about? You must've been having really good conversation!

Cally (ENTP): It got heavy really quickly. What did we talk about?

Nate (ENTJ): We both did a lot of testing because we were 25, had dated for some years and were getting to a point where we were comfortable, at least knowing who we were and what we wanted and what we expected, there was really no beating around the bush. It was a lot of testing and quizzing.

Cally (ENTP): He had just come out of a really bad breakup. I hadn't had a serious relationship for years, since high school almost. But I didn't think he was an ENT [personality type] because I grew up with the Myers-Briggs, so I thought he was the typical introverted feeling type guy. I was like, “Oh, he's so my speed!” Because that's normally what I'm attracted to, but he was just very solemn because he had just had a pretty bad breakup and he wasn't really approaching. So I always say he tricked me. I didn't know who he was; he was just in a funk and kind of getting back into the swing of things. Is that fair?

Nate (ENTJ): Yeah. I think I reverted to that. If you read what each type does in a rut, I was decidedly at that stage at that time.

Cally (ENTP): That's why it worked because I never would have been attracted to him back then if he was his gregarious, out-there self because I never dated that [type of person] because it was too much competition for me.

Nate (ENTJ): I think everyone else in the class was probably looking at it like, “Okay, this instructor and the student obviously have banter, there's other people in the room. I'm not sure if you're aware?” So we kind of took the conversation into the hallway at that point. And then it was just a three-hour incredible conversation. We have a lot of conversation because we talk about anything and everything. We're both really, really open and don't hide.

Cally (ENTP): We were complaining about school, about the class, about a certain professor and we just jumped right into everything. And then we found out we had a lot in common and… yeah!

Jess (INFP): Was it the strongest connection that you'd felt in a long, long time?

Nate (ENTJ): Absolutely.

Cally (ENTP): For sure. Especially intellectually. I knew in those three hours, I'd never found a guy that was so intellectually matched for me. And so I was just like, “Wow! That was the best, most stimulating three-hour conversations I had had in a long time for sure.”

Nate (ENTJ): I think the nice thing about it being such an intellectual match was also just how easy and how free-flowing it was. I especially have a lot of awkwardness and disconnects with humanity in general, and it could be because I'm perceiving things to not be how I'd want them to be or people are not in a position that I feel like they should be or the role they should be in. So I do a lot of this testing conversationally and we just hit it off. It just flowed so easily.

Cally (ENTP): Yeah. Easy is the word I would use to describe it.

Jess (INFP): Yeah. I think for NTs in particular, that intellectual stimulation is just key for attraction, right?

Cally (ENTP): Yeah. And it was hard to find, especially as a female. I mean, I know my type is more rare, and as a female, it was hard to find that because I think the guys that tend to be more out there and gregarious sometimes don't want my style and so I would naturally seek introverted guys, that cliché of opposites attract. And I had great relationships and there were great men that I dated, but I knew long-term, if I stuck with them, I was just going to get so bored or I was just going to push them away because I just get bored. And so it was refreshing.

Nate (ENTJ): I think without the intellectual attraction, none of the other attractions are even possible. I can say that really clearly. And I, in that first conversation too, was a lot of, “Alright, top five albums, top five books, top five moments in history. What’s your five-year plan? Your ten-year plan? What's your life plan? What's your life goals? What skills do you have? It was really an interview. “We're considering you for a top role, so go ahead and list your skills.”

Jess (INFP): Probably more of an intuitive thing than a sensor of thing to jump in there with the bigger question straight away.

Cally (ENTP): If it was anybody else, we would've scared anybody off, but I think we were both at the same point where we were like, “I don't want to mess around and let's just get right to it. If this is going to work great, we can proceed. If not, let's not waste anybody's time.”

Nate (ENTJ): And without that, the attraction isn't even possible for us.

Cally (ENTP): Yeah, for me, it wasn't for sure. I think we're getting better in 2020 to allow females to be themselves, whether they were seen as more out there or dominating or whatever the terminology. I think it's refreshing that I feel like new age men or different partners are more accepting of ‘females can be this and it's okay.’

Nate (ENTJ): There’s nothing more alluring, there's nothing more attractive and exciting than just your female intelligence and offering. It's the best.

Jess (INFP): That’s so cute. And so I don't know if you'd count that as your first date..?

Cally (ENTP): Yeah. Maybe so. We proceeded. It just blended and then it was hanging out every day. It was just like, “Hey, let's go skateboarding” and “Hey, let's go do this. Let's go swimming.” It was just very easy to just do active things and we just seamlessly fitted one another's life. So it was easy.

Nate (ENTJ): So really from then on, it was really carefree. It was carefree, but there was just the deep level of interest it was calling and texting there wasn't that ‘wait several weeks’ and that silly dance.

Cally (ENTP): It was the perfect timing.

Jess (INFP): Yeah. One thing that we've learned from doing these podcasts is that if it's right, it's right. And it doesn't really matter about the details, like if you leave it a bit too long to text someone or text a bit quickly, if it's right, it just happens.

Cally (ENTP): Let's get past it. Yeah. I mean don't waste time. You don't need to.

Nate (ENTJ): I think you're much better at that than me, especially with being open-ended and waiting for the universe to present itself and open and ready. I'm much more, “This needs to happen now here's the timeline. Here's the plan. There's a schedule.” But you're much better at that.

Cally (ENTP): I'm much more free-spirity for sure.

Jess (INFP): Judger perceive difference.

Lou (ESFJ): You've sort of answered this one, but what was it that really first attracted you to each other?

Cally (ENTP): Humor. Yeah. Humor and intellect fired away from me. Because I had gotten to the point where I felt like I was wise enough and had gotten over that ‘you need to date a guy for looks.’ My brain was developed, I was 25 finally, and I had some shallow dating years for fun. You're very cute. So that's not what I'm saying! You were very handsome. But just the banter and the humor and the intellect, I just hadn't met somebody like that. And the fact that he was engaging with me was shocking because normally people like that wouldn’t engage with me. It would just be kind of more combative.

Nate (ENTJ): Maybe especially guys at that time.

Cally (ENTP): When I think I met plenty of NT males throughout my life, but it was more combative and more like brothers, sisters pushing each other's buttons and nerves a little bit. So yeah, it was interesting. It was actually kind of flirty banter, which was rare.

Nate (ENTJ): Once I got a sense of how smart you were, and I got to watch you speak and present, so I got to see the style and the way you would really just pick people out in the room and they'd give an answer and you'd give a response that would leave them thinking, “I think she liked me, but I'm kind of scared, but I'm not sure. But did she insult me? I either want to be her best friend or I’m scared.” And aside from just being drop dead gorgeous, all of the above.”

Jess (INFP): And when did you first consider yourself a couple?

Cally (ENTP): We hung out together all the time. I think it was like a couple of months. He was a little possessive about guys because there were still lingering guys, and you had just got out of a long-term relationship, so there were no girls on your outside.

Nate (ENTJ): Yeah. Despite it being so easy going and so conflict free, I was really tentative at the time.

Cally (ENTP): Yeah. He had been burned and he was proceeding cautiously. And you wanted things on your terms, so I think that was unique for you because I was the first girl to be like, “Well, hey! These are my terms.”

Nate (ENTJ): I think there was also a part of you looking at me like, “I'll let you think that.”

Cally (ENTP): That's true.

Lou (ESFJ): And then when did you first discover your personality type?

Cally (ENTP): My dad was a social, well, he has degrees in social work, so he did some of that stuff. While growing up, they always talked about the Myers-Briggs. Even though I think my parents had mistyped so many people and my mom mistyped me, I think to help console herself through the teenage years. She did not want an open-ended child so she just told all of us, we were judgers. It was actually detrimental to me growing up because I thought she forced me be like, “No this is what you are.” And then I would read it and I'm like, “Yeah, but I'm so much more open-ended. I don't finish things well.” So I was kind of fighting my personality, I think like we all do, but to have the Myers-Briggs prototype in your mind from such a young age and then I felt like I was mistyped. But then I loved it. I took it with me everywhere. I went to college with roommates and I would be like, “Okay, sit down. Let's take the test.” And so the second date… You'd have known about it, right? From your university course?

Nate (ENTJ): I had taken it in a course in university. So I think I would have been in my early twenties when I first discovered it.

Cally (ENTP): But then I made you take it again because I don't think you were sure, or you didn't like the typing. You were in that ‘don’t put me in a box’ camp.

Nate (ENTJ): I was uninterested in being boxed in by so few letters perhaps.

Cally (ENTP): I love it. Funny.

Nate (ENTJ): Anyone who knows you knew that it was almost a, “Nice to meet you. I'd like you to take this test.”

Jess (INFP): I’m the same.

Cally (ENTP): Well, it helps so much. And for me, I didn't know I was good at reading people so it helped me cope with awkwardness of social situations. So it was like, “Here, let me type you so I can navigate this better.” Because I felt awkward myself. Now that I can own my social awkwardness, I was like, “Oh, that was my coping mechanism.”

Nate (ENTJ): It's not uncommon for someone to take the test and to be wildly wrong because maybe their answers are based on roles that they feel obliged to be living in or aspirations that they haven't yet fulfilled. But the good thing about you, especially with your open-ended personality, is that you really help people hone in on what their letters are.

Cally (ENTP): That’s nice. I try.

Jess (INFP): It's an interesting experience I guess, because I feel like most people's experience of Myers-Briggs is; they take the test, they read the description and they're like, “Wow! This is so me.” So it’s quite interesting that you had this quite unique experience of having a different personality type being put on you.

Cally (ENTP): Yeah. Just because of my mom. I don't know what her fear was.

Nate (ENTJ): Having been mistyped your entire life, only to discover who you really were, who you knew you were your entire life, to properly type yourself maybe in your late teens or early twenties.

Cally (ENTP): Early twenties, yeah! And it was so helpful to be like, “Oh, this is something I can work with now instead of fighting against it.” So you're being told you're one thing. So you're fighting like, “This doesn't feel natural. I'm trying to fight to be this thing that was fighting against that.” And then I realized, “Oh, you know what? I'm much more open-ended. I can't be this drill sergeant person.” So it was super helpful to finally get to know myself for sure.

Nate (ENTJ): In that context, there was nothing sort of more scary than a daughter who was strong, powerful, independent, open-ended.

Cally (ENTP): For an EST J mother, yes! So for a mom that's an ESTJ, I just drove her nuts.

Lou (ESFJ): Yeah. Probably the most routine-orientated personality type that you could get. And then, have you typed your children?

Cally (ENTP): Yeah, I think we have NTs all across the board with some variables. So I think that genetic dominated. Would you say that James is an ENTJ?

Nate (ENTJ): ENTJ as well.

Cally (ENTP): Yeah, he’s you. And then my daughter is me.

Nate (ENTJ): Yes, ENTP.

Cally (ENTP): And then our youngest is disabled. So, our youngest little eight-year-old girl, she's disabled. So she’s just happy-go-lucky. But with her particular syndrome, they're often at times very quiet and are slow to speak and late to learn how to speak verbally, but she caught on so fast. So we joke around the extravert gene even dominated a genetic syndrome.

Jess (INFP): Yeah, wow! So lots of NTs. You must have some very dynamic conversations.

Cally (ENTP): Yeah. It's a lot. It's a fiery house for sure. There's a lot going on.

Nate (ENTJ): All extraversion, lots of talking over. Having something like a talking stick would just be completely futile because everybody has much to say at all times. Everybody's highly competitive. So anything from a simple game to a simple race, is not simple whatsoever because we're highly competitive and highly extraverted. So it's never boring. We at least learned that everybody needs their personal time and personal space to decompress because when everybody engages, it's just constant competition. But in a positive way because they don't see us as combative with each other, I think negatively. Everybody's just driven to whatever goals and plans and their own ideals

Jess (INFP): And has knowing your personality type impacted your relationship with each other?

Cally (ENTP): Yeah. It's super helpful. I think it helps. We each have to take turns. I think sometimes we have to turn more into our F, to our sensory, and I think we each have to navigate that because we are so similar in certain ways, we do have to take turns, looking out for one another instead of both of us just being in our own lane. And so it's helped me so much to say, “Okay, I do need to remember to tell him nice things.”

Nate (ENTJ): I think it's been a really great framework, otherwise we might sort of just live parallel individual lives because we're both highly independent. But yeah, I think also learning certain things that are unique to each of us. I'm the linguist so I do enjoy words.

Cally (ENTP): I struggle with words. I am a great writer, but I struggle with words. I struggle with expressing myself, some things come more awkwardly and so you've been kind and not judging me for my lack of well-spoken English for sure.

Nate (ENTJ): But you've been very good to point out, “That's a terrific phrase. You've really turned a nice phrase, but let's do things, let's keep it moving” with quality time and action and that sort of stuff.

Lou (ESFJ): And then what kind of things do you guys talk about?

Cally (ENTP): What don’t we talk about? So we own a business together. We started a business eight years ago and we own and run a business. O our whole lives are intermingled from the kids to the business and we have such a similar sense of humor so we find the same media things funny, the same shows for the most part. We're just such similar people. I think we talk about everything.

Nate (ENTJ): I think it's a bit difficult to envision people getting along so well, which have such different interests in terms of movies, in terms of music, in terms of history and philosophy and that sort of thing. We're really well aligned on that stuff. So it's terrible, maybe a lot of the time we're just listening and feeding our egos.

Cally (ENTP): We’re a thousand percent self-serving, feeding our egos for sure.

Nate (ENTJ): But we get to spend a lot of time together. We get to work together and we have really thick skin so we're at least able to say, “No, don't send that email. You need to change this.” Nobody's going to go away feeling hurt and then not express it for a few days. We're both really interested in each other's feedback and that sort of thing. We're lucky we get to work together and we get along. But I mean, yeah, it's just a lot of talking 24/7.

Jess (INFP): I think NTs do tend to handle criticism a lot better than other types. They more see it as just a logical thing to do and receive.

Nate (ENTJ): I think we see breakdowns as logical or technical failures, much more so than anything personal.

Cally (ENTP): And I'm super self-deprecating. I think that's one thing and INTPs and ENTPs do. I’ll call it out of myself when somebody says something, and I'm like, “Well, absolutely. You're probably right.” And I think you are similar. But I think those that are closest to you, I think you do have a little bit more of a sensitive skin for those because he loves so hard. And so I think you do take a little bit more, which I think is a misnomer for a lot of NT males, the people that are close to them, you love and give so hard. It's so outside of the typical, what you would read. And so I think sometimes it can be a little much for those that you love. If they say hurtful things, I think there's a little bit of a harder bounce just because you give so much.

Nate (ENTJ): I think to an extent, especially with the kids, but anyone who's close, it's like you've gotten past so many tests that you don't know I was putting you through. You're in my inner circle and I'm loyal to the death, but you've been really good at identifying those sorts of things. And I think that's the benefit of being so open-ended as you are, you see possibilities and you're motivated by possibilities. So a lot of what we talk about are plans and we could go there or we could go to this place, we could visit this place, we could do that and you're very, very motivated. So that perhaps confused me a bit at first. Because I was so concrete. So, if she would say, “We should go to Mexico next week. I'd be like, “All right, well we can plan that, and this is what we’re going to do, and I can move some things around.” And then that thought is gone within 10 minutes. And it confused me at first because I realized that you arrive at where you want to be through speaking to it and planning and engaging. It's motivating to you.

Cally (ENTP): That’s exciting for me. It’s not concrete at all.

Jess (INFP): It's funny what you're saying about NT males, and NTs in general really, I was thinking about them today and they're not necessarily the warmest at first, but they are genuinely some of the kindest and most generous people.

Cally (ENTP): Thank you for saying that. That's nice! We do get a bad rap I think and especially, I think females, you know, sometimes too. I think a lot of people in my family were confused and they think I'm just very mean because when I'm debating, they just think I go home and I have voodoo dolls where I poke needles in all of them.

Nate (ENTJ): They think you’re manipulating, conniving and these sorts of things. And if only they understood, she doesn't have to plan these sorts of things ahead of time, she's just thinking and freewheeling and essentially improvising as she goes. And don't take anything personal that she said.

Cally (ENTP): But I’m the nicest person because I forget. I'm very forgetful. If you said something mean to me, I'm like, “What? Oh no, we're fine. We can move on. I don't remember. It's good.”

Nate (ENTJ): You're the easiest person to love. You’re really just so, so, so easy to love.

Jess (INFP): And how do you guys deal with conflict?

Nate (ENTJ): I think we're quite direct, really.

Cally (ENTP): Then we get there. I think we're always direct. That was a lesson I had to learn. I like to poke the bear. It's fun. It's stimulating. But he drew the hard line within the first year, I would say, of marriage, you let me get away with it more in the relationship pre-marriage. But once we were married, he said, “You can't do this. We're not going to do this.” And so you were pretty clear and it kind of shook me at first, but man, I am so grateful he shut it down because there's plenty of people in the world that I can debate with. And I realized there's already so much going on at home. You should be my fun person and my intellectual stimulation. You shouldn't be my poke the bear person.

Nate (ENTJ): Because you're so good at debating, you're so good at formulating solid and logical arguments and there's a lot of good places for that in the world. But I think my perspective was, let's just be a superpower together and then debate everyone else. Wouldn't that be fun? And I think that created a really, really good safe space.

Cally (ENTP): Super direct in the first year, which is nice. I resented you for a little bit, but in the end, it was much more beneficial.

Nate (ENTJ): I still tend to get into a rut and kind of get it in my own mind. And if I’m failing to meet my own personal goals or expectations, you're quite good at pulling me out of it. You're really, really good at being very direct, especially when you can tell things are going awry, someone's getting quiet, someone's pulling away or dealing with something.

Lou (ESFJ): And then what did you like most about each other's personality?

Nate (ENTJ): Your intelligence and your humor, far and away, and then those are essentially the gateway to everything else because you're incredibly gorgeous, incredibly attractive in every way. The ENTP female power, to me, there's nothing more attractive on the planet. I could just observe and just watch girls like you run the world and would just love to see a world ran by ENTP females with it. Sense of humor is just so huge. I couldn't be around someone who I didn't find funny, life wouldn't have any purpose.

Cally (ENTP): I love your loyalty. He's just so loyal and so calming and so stable that it's given me a safe place to emotionally unload what I need to and given me the tools to even learn how to do that, I would say, for the first time in any relationship. You're just so comforting. You're just so dynamic. He has so many different layers and I love to see who he is with everybody in our lives. Best dad, best husband. I mean, my female friends are just like, “What did you do?” And I'm like, “I know. I don't deserve this.” But he's the best, like flowers weekly, a constant barrage of texts and love. And he's so good with the kids and worships the kids. He's the best. I got super lucky for sure.

Jess (INFP): It’s so sweet. I love hearing all this. It's just really nice to hear.

Cally (ENTP): Just marry a similar person and you'll be fine. Yeah.

Jess (INFP): Slightly different question. But is there anything that you would change about each other's personalities.

Cally (ENTP): I would say he's very hard on himself. I just wish he wasn't so hard on himself. You know, it's hard to see your partner who's an amazing person, who thrives in so many things, be so hard on themselves. Sometimes I just want him to know how great you are and loved you are and how amazing you are and be proud of yourself when stuff doesn't work out. So I think that would be my only thing is just for him to know how we all feel about him from the kids to me, and to sometimes take that in during the harder moments.

Nate (ENTJ): And that's a challenge because that doesn't occur naturally to me at all. So I really, I appreciate that. And for you, I think maybe a lot of it is based on having been so mistyped for so long and really coming into the full array of everything that you are for so long. I just looked at you and I thought there's so much happening here. You have so, so, so much potential. You're just phenomenal. And you really could just fly. You don't need me. You don't need anyone or anything. You just fly. And I think just continuing to embrace how phenomenal you are and being, I don't know, maybe less self-effacing about it at times and just fully embracing ‘this is who I am and why hide it or shy away from it.’ And you really are. And maybe that's why I didn't think about it at first, because especially in these last few years, I'm just watching you fly. I like it.

Cally (ENTP): I’m a slow maturity. It takes well into my almost forties to make that happen.

Nate (ENTJ): Yeah. I view things more as conditions that put you in a position of where you are in terms of roles. I'm always thinking, “Well, you're only this way because you're not in a role that's suited for you.” So I wouldn't want to change a personality, but I would want to improve a condition or a situation. And I think if people were in a situation where they could flourish, then there'd be less emphasis on, I need to fundamentally change something about your personality, much more change the situation that you're in. So your personality, whatever it is, can flourish in its place.

Cally (ENTP): That's CEO talk. I like it.

Nate (ENTJ): And then I thought that's nonsense. That's probably not what we want to hear for this sort of chat.

Lou (ESFJ): And what challenges have you faced as a couple?

Cally (ENTP): What have we not faced? First, we got married in 2007, bought a house, had a job, recession hit, lost our house, lost jobs, had to move, moved around a ton, quite a few employment bounces, trying to settle in after the recession, our first child was born premature, our oldest son, starting a business was crazy, our youngest daughter, when she was born, it was clear she was disabled and there was a genetic syndrome on top of already having a full house. Our kids are pretty close together.

Nate (ENTJ): We're lucky that our kids are so phenomenal, and we really enjoy the time we get to spend with them. Our oldest is on the spectrum so he has autism. Our next experiences OCD, which I relate somewhat to as well. Our daughter is like a nine-year-old/30-year-old. She's just powerhouse. She's phenomenal in her way. And then our youngest is very severely disabled and has had 43 surgeries in her eight years of life. So I think our challenge have been, you know, you name it and we've touched on that challenge. Right.

Cally (ENTP): So I think, we thrive in challenges so it's kept me kind of grounded as a mother. I don't think I would have naturally been as grounded as a parent, but to have all these unique circumstances that keep me satisfied from my personality. It's been pretty grounding and I wouldn't change it. It's hard, but I always say I have exactly the kids I should have. As an NT female, it keeps me super present as opposed to watching some of my other friends of different types, because I naturally hang out with all SFs or NFs and watching them be more intuitive mothers and have that kind of nurture. I'm like, “Oh, so I got the kids I needed for sure to help me as a mom.” But from right away, we had some pretty significant challenges in certain aspects and so we were either going to cling together or we were going to break up, right? You go through this stuff and you just see from having disabled kids to job losses, these are all the quintessential reasons why partners break up. And so we just became just instant glue. We have to do this together. We will not survive any of this for sure.

Jess (INFP): That is quite a lot of challenges, more than most people.

Cally (ENTP): I know. I’m like, “Is this us? It’s probably us!”

Nate (ENTJ): It's allowed us to, and I say the word role, but I think it's really the wrong word. A better word would be situation. I think we've just tried to keep each of our kids the way we would with ourselves or what you would hope for, for anybody, whether it's at work or in your personal life, to improve your situation or to be in a situation where you have the freedom to breathe and to feel safe and you feel comfortable. So we've had to take each of our kids in a very unique way and help them understand: here's the situation, which hopefully will bring out the best in you. And you know, when you have kids, I think we also looked at each other and realized, okay, we have these kids, they're phenomenal. We're crazy about them. We would do anything for them. Let's just give them the best possible go that they could have.

Lou (ESFJ): Final question, what are you most looking forward to in your future together?

Nate (ENTJ): If there's something that we've wanted to do in a sense, we've kind of done it.

Cally (ENTP): That's also a problem. If we want to do something, we try and make it happen within whatever means we can. So we're not good at holding out for certain holidays or certain future dates. If we want to do something, I'm much more spontaneous and you're happy to go along with it and have your own ideas as well. So we are instant gratification. I think for good and bad in our relationship, sometimes if we want it, we get it, we do it.

Nate (ENTJ): Especially at this stage in life. We're looking back and going, “Yeah, if there's something we wanted to do, we did it.” And I think neither of us are motivated by, “Oh, we'll be happy if, and when this happens” or “if we go on that trip five years from now, it's going to be so great.” That doesn't motivate us at all. If there's something we want, we've kind of done it.

Cally (ENTP): And we're very present. That's why we live in the here and the now. I like possibilities, but I'm very much present.

Nate (ENTJ): And then neither of us is motivated by having some sort of lofty surprise gifts that we want to get at the end of the year. If there's something we want, we'll just get it for ourselves. So there's really not pressure to surprise me with that one great thing that I want. If you want it, you'll come home with it. So things like anniversary, birthdays and those sort of traditional things, are kind of meaningless.

Cally (ENTP): We did better for the kids too. We know enough to know that we should give the kids some sense of ceremony for their stuff. But for us, we're very anti-ceremonial

Nate (ENTJ): We’d rather buy some cool thing or do some cool thing on a random Wednesday, than have to hold out for it for your birthday in six months. So maybe what used to be considered romance, is not necessarily in our house.

Cally (ENTP): And having a disabled child too, we don't have the luxury of saying, “Oh, when we're empty nesters, I look forward to when we retire.” And so we just know we'll always have a plus one with us. And it’s just so nice because it keeps us grounded. It keeps us celebrating now and doing fun things, not waiting for when we do this and when we have this, I think it's our nature. But then we've also learned through our youngest that just be present and celebrate the here and now, that's it.

Nate (ENTJ): And if you don't get to it, it might not happen. Because I think we realized that there's a finite number of days that you have in your lives. And our daughter's particular life has helped us realize that this will not last much longer, so enjoy and be present while you can.

Cally (ENTP): Take the trip now. Do the things now.

Nate (ENTJ): Plan that trip! Do it in a week, do it in two weeks or in a month, but don't put it off for several years. And then I think we've wanted to help our kids understand as well, they don't owe us anything at all. Nobody chose to be born and nobody chose to be born the way they are. We chose to make people. So we made some humans and because we made the humans, we are your people forever. We're here for you. We're here to give to you. We're here to support you, help put you in great situations, but at no point, are they obligated in any way to give or return anything to us. And we have wonderful kids, and they shower us with cards and gifts, and they're just so phenomenal, but if they want to, that's their choice, but we're here to provide a good situation for them.

Cally (ENTP): We’ll see if it works.

Jess (INFP): Thank you so much for coming on Personality Love Lab. I have just really enjoyed hearing about your relationship and it just sounds like it works really, really well.

Nate (ENTJ): We hope you keep doing what you're doing.

Cally (ENTP): Yeah, this is awesome. I would have killed for this app, even though I probably would have picked the wrong person.

Lou (ESFJ): Thank you for listening to Personality Love Lab. We hope you enjoyed hearing this love story about personality type compatibility, and don't forget to click subscribe.

Jess (INFP): And if you're looking for your own love story, head over to your app store now and download So Syncd, the dating app that matches compatible personality types. It’s free and you can find people who are looking to connect on a deeper level.