S1E11: Bonus Episode: Success in Online Dating

Brought to you by So Syncd, the first personality type dating app and website.

We are joined by Jenny Ella (ESFJ), a top dating coach who specializes in online dating. Jenny share tips around how to make your online dating profile stand out from the crowd, what kind of photos work best and what to say in that first message on a dating app. We also discuss what sparks that initial attraction.

To find out more, visit www.jennyellacoaching.com

Jess (INFP): Hi, welcome to Personality Love Lab, where we interview real people and real couples to delve deeper into personality types and love.

Lou (ESFJ): This podcast is brought to you by the sisters who created So Syncd, the dating app that matches compatible personality types.

Jess (INFP): My name is Jess. I'm an INFP, also known as The Dreamer.

Lou (ESFJ): And I'm Lou, an ESFJ, also known as The Supporter.

Today on personality love lab. We have another very special guest Jenny Ella of Jenny Ella coaching. Jenny is a dating coach who specializes in online dating. She also writes online dating profiles for clients all around the world, which can be a challenging part of online dating.

Jess (INFP): So Jenny is an ESFJ, also known as The Supporter. And you can find Jenny at www.jennyellacoaching.com.

So we're going to ask some slightly different questions today. Usually we have couples on, but we've got questions around dating and relationships from a dating coach perspective.

Jenny (ESFJ): Hello, happy to be here.

Jess (INFP): Yeah. Great to have you. So yeah, firstly, to start, what do you actually do as a dating coach?

Jenny (ESFJ): Well, I aim to make online dating easier. I think for a lot of people that can feel quite overwhelming and exhausting when you're online dating and I can really help guide you through the whole process to make it easier, less time consuming and to find the love you want.

Jess (INFP): What do you think is so overwhelming about dating?

Jenny (ESFJ): The sheer volume of people coming towards you and to not get bogged down into endlessly, just messaging back and forth online. And for some people, I think that's where they go quite wrong. They can just be doing that forever and ever, and it never becomes a date.

Lou (ESFJ): So what are your tips for building a meaningful connection as quickly as possible?

Jenny (ESFJ): There's lots of different techniques and tools. A lot of that would be to have a fabulous profile up there, and I would write the profile for you. I'd also give feedback on what photos to put up there, because that makes a huge difference too. And then also I’ll be coaching around lots of the processes of how to get from going from the first hello to getting to commitment. And also any of the issues that might come up and along the way. So if people have low self-esteem or low confidence, or if people find themselves getting quite triggered and angry and judgmental by some of the dates that they have. I do coaching around that to help them with that. And also, for some people, if their boundaries aren't so strong maybe helping to coach them to strengthen their boundaries and guide them with good communication.

Jess (INFP): I think that first message on a dating app can be quite, I guess, quite challenging for some people. Is there any advice that you would give, should it be like short and sweet? Should it be tailored to that person's profile?

Jenny (ESFJ): Yeah, I think it's usually the guys who are making, not always, but usually it's the guys who are making that first initiating the contact. Most guys would send out loads of messages and they won't necessarily get very many replies at all. So what they think is, well, I'll just cast my net even wider send out to more and more women in the hope that somebody comes back. And I won't invest too much time and energy into that one message because I'm not really expecting a response from the majority of them.

So what happens is they, the men who are casting their net wider and wider and just writing these like ‘Hi’ or ‘Hi babe’, and just like one off things like that. And women, when they're receiving these messages can feel frustrated, annoyed, cause they've written a whole profile that clearly no one's bothered to read. And so the kind of the mix between the two of them, the balance between that, isn't always the best.

So I think for guys, I would say, maybe just quickly look at the profile and say something about her that appealed to you. Say something about her that attracted you and put that in, just one line, just to have something real to hold onto. And for women, I would say, you know guys are coming from the same place you are, we’re all on there to meet someone and make a human connection and emotional connection. And just give it a bit of time if someone says, ‘Hi’, just say ‘Hi’ back. You don't have to invest a lot of time in that.

Jess (INFP): You don't have to get really annoyed because it’s just ‘Hi’s

Jenny (ESFJ): And if someone's just writing you a one sentence line, just give them one sentence back. You don't need to come back with five paragraphs. You want to kind of balance out whatever the first person's thing with a similar amount of effort. So minimal effort I'd say at the start, but yeah, something!

Jess (INFP): Yeah, I think the tip about kind of, you know reading, actually like properly reading someone's profile and commenting on something in their profile.

Jenny (ESFJ): Yeah and better to, just pick, I don't know, five or six women that you've really liked the look of in a profile and write to those rather than writing to 40 women just copy and pasting “Hello”.

Lou (ESFJ): And what does attraction mean to you and what you think the main factors of attraction are?

Jenny (ESFJ): I think attraction is about the coming together of opposite energies. So in attraction, I'm talking about sexual attraction and emotional attraction. So those two things you need. But it's the coming together of opposite energies and I would term those as yin and yang.

So in a relationship, for romance to spark, you kind of need one of each, of the yin and the yang. And for yin we we're just talking about feminine energy and yang is masculine energy. And it's important to know that everybody has both of these energies inside them. So I'm not just talking about men having masculine and women have feminine, but everybody has masculine and feminine energy within them, but people tend to be predominantly one or the other. And what creates romance and attraction and spark, is when the predominantly masculine person meets a predominantly feminine energy person. And that's what creates the spark and the magic to happen.

So for attraction, you kind of need one of each so that you could have a really masculine energy guy with a really feminine energy woman and that's fabulous. Or you could have a really masculine energy woman with a really feminine energy guy. And to sort of describe the energies a bit more. I talk about a feminine energy is that energy of the yin energy. So it's more about receiving, responding, feeling, simply being, you know, kind of being in the present moment. That's more feminine energy. And then masculine energy is more initiating, thinking, doing. It's the kind of energy of action, planning.

Lou (ESFJ): And what happens do you think if masculine energy meets masculine energy?

Jenny (ESFJ): Then your kind of butting heads against each other really, and it doesn't really happen so much, or you'll just become really good friends. But you weren't necessarily get the romance and the spark. So you kind of need one of each to get that kind of, ‘Voomf’

Lou (ESFJ): Balance?

Jenny (ESFJ): To get that balance.

Lou (ESFJ): Yeah.

Jenny (ESFJ): And that's what creates attraction. And I’m talking about the beginning of a relationship, that's what creates the spark. But then as it all beds down into sort of long-term relationship, long-term commitment, then there's a lot more ebb and flow and people will move in and out of that energy as much more. So you might be sort of more masculine, certain situations, more feminine in the others. And there's just a nice free-flowing thing. But predominantly, and particularly at the start, you want that meeting of the two the yin and the yang sort of fitting.

Jess (INFP): And what do you think about mental attraction? I guess it's hard to completely disaggregate these attractions, but I guess yeah. You know, sexual attraction, it's kind of obvious and emotional attraction is…

Jenny (ESFJ): Okay so that's really is sort of attraction and compatibility in a way. I mean, there's all these different kinds of attraction, whether that's sexual attraction, as you say, mental attraction, or might be attraction of your values or something like that. But I think what really counts in terms of long-term commitments is emotional attraction. And so you might be so mentally stimulating to each other and have this fabulous discussion. So you might be fabulous in bed and have amazing sex, but if that isn't connecting with your emotions and your heart and your feeling, then love, isn't going to last long term.

So it's the emotional attraction more than anything that, that counts really.

Jess (INFP): So would you say emotional energy or emotional attraction compatibility are the core to it all? And then other things like physical, sexual, mental, values, attraction is kind of like, I guess, does it depend on the person, like, you know, someone might value sexual attraction more than mental attraction, but you need that.

Jenny (ESFJ): Yes. I mean, I would put it in terms more of which is more important, the sexual chemistry or the compatibility? And compatibility I would say is the shared interests, the intelligence, your sense of adventure. How you both react in terms of when you’ve experienced difficulties and conflict together; what your response to that is. What do you think of each other's values? Like honesty, integrity and all of those things. And I think to be happy in a long-term relationship compatibility is vital. You've got to have your core needs met on both sides for it to work. And probably the easiest way to think is if you ask yourself the question, ‘Do I feel infinitely happier to be able to share my life experiences together with my partner?’ And if it's not making me infinitely happier to do that, then I would say, you're probably not compatible.

Jess (INFP): Yeah.

Jenny (ESFJ): And sexual chemistry. Of course that matters. I mean, that matters hugely. You know, if you, I don't know if you find someone who doesn't make tennis and you love tennis, well, then you can go off and play tennis with another partner. But in most marriages or long-term commitments, if one wants lots of sex and the other doesn't, it's not like you can always just go off and have sex with another partner. So you need, I mean, it really matters that you have good sex and you've got sexual chemistry.  But it's about finding a balance, I think between the compatibility, the shared interest, the shared values, the shared sort of mental stimulation and the sexual attraction.

Jess (INFP): And how much of a correlation do you think there is between I guess initial attraction and then long-term compatibility? Because I'm sure there's cases where, you know, people have amazing sparks in the beginning, but they're really not that compatible.

Jenny (ESFJ): I think that intense chemistry that you get at the beginning doesn't last as intensely. So that will kind of go down a little bit, but that's not to say you won't have great sex. I'm just saying that sexual chemistry kind of just goes down a little bit. It can still be fabulous and compatibility, that kind of pretty much sticks. It's the same thing the whole way through, and maybe you get better at it because you can then negotiate things better as you go along. So it's about finding the balance between the two. And I'd say you want to go for, if you want kind of figures, I think go for a 9 or 10 on compatibility and maybe a 7 or 8 on the sexual, chemical attraction, because it really matters and you really want great sex. But it doesn't have to be that all out intense thing, which isn't going to probably last anyway, the whole way through 20 years of marriage.

Lou (ESFJ): We obviously have our own views on personality compatibility, but we're very keen to hear your thoughts too. Do you think that personalities that are more similar or different tend to work better together?

Jenny (ESFJ): I think, often, I think the differences is what works because it's that yin and yang that, masculine, feminine, that's the spark that creates the attraction. I think if you're very different personalities, there's maybe lots, you've got all the fun of exploring each other and where each other is at. And there's a lot to go on there, a of great voyage of discovery between, between the two of you.

Jess (INFP): It’s more interesting.

Jenny (ESFJ): Yeah. And I think from these, when you've got these two different types, then you've got them and then you've got the partner and then together you create this third new thing, which is the relationship. So it's just sort of more expansive I think. And perhaps more interesting and more fun.

Jess (INFP): Yeah. We do pair people on So Syncd that have certain similarities and certain differences, but more differences than similarities.

Jenny (ESFJ): I think it was going back to compatibility isn’t it? You want your core needs met and that's where you want the similarities, I think. But beyond that, it's nice to have something that's a little bit different from yourself.

Jess (INFP): And then I guess we think it’s good to have like some similarities just so on a daily basis you just like to chat about the same things. But yeah, for sure, you want differences as well.

Lou (ESFJ): So how has your advice changed with lockdown and things like that?

Jenny (ESFJ): Well, I think in some ways, locked down has slowed down the process of dating. So, I think in some ways it's given more of a chance for the compatibility and the emotional connection to happen. Because the sexual chemistry people aren't going out there and being in each other's physical presence. So, it's slowing down, almost like to old fashioned courting, where you'd really start to get to know the person a bit better. I think there's something quite old fashioned and quite nice about that.

And I think that was certainly the case to start with. I think now if we would have another lockdown and I know in some parts of the country, there is. I think that it is beginning to get a bit frustrating to think actually I really want to go and meeting someone and I can't get out and people have to be quite creative about what to do on a Zoom.

Jess (INFP): So, I was reading this study and was saying that actually parameters and kind of constrictions in some way can actually improve creativity rather than hinder it. And is essentially, you know, like if you put these kinds of restrictions in place, then you're forced to be a bit creative.

Jenny (ESFJ): That's right. It's not like, just, shall we just go for a quick coffee in Starbucks? Or should we just go out for dinner? It's like, shall we play some quiz on Zoom or shall we watch a film together and then talk about it afterwards? A lot of people that have done that when they've cooked something and they've each got the same recipe and they'd been chopping vegetables away together, while they've been on Zoom and stuff. And I think that's kind of nice, I think that’s kind of fun.

Jess (INFP): Someone on the app the other day said that they had done like a virtual art class as a date. Because she’s an artist.

Jenny (ESFJ): Brilliant.

Jess (INFP): And I was like, ‘Oh, that's really cool.’

Jenny (ESFJ): That’s really good! I do think fun dates are a really good idea. I think initially you don't want to, because it's all such early days, you don't want to put too much time and effort into it. So, I think to start with, I'd say go for a one-hour coffee somewhere that's kind of easy between the two of you, and just do that. And then you could maybe do one or two coffees in a night, so that's a good way.

But then after that, rather than just doing endless dinners, yeah, come up with fun ideas. Or you can just go for a supermarket shop together, chat as you go and do something, you know, either useful or really good fun and enjoyable.

Jess (INFP): Yeah. We've been really happy actually, it has been really great because actually a lot of people have actually got into relationships from So Syncd.

Lou (ESFJ): Through lockdown.

Jess (INFP): Yeah through lockdown.

Jenny (ESFJ): I don't think it’s hindered; I mean it's hindered the sex for sure!

Jess (INFP) & Lou (ESFJ): Hahaha

Jenny (ESFJ): But I don't think it’s hindered the emotional connection. No, I know plenty of my clients who have done that. And in fact, interestingly, I had more people during lockdown who got into relationships with clients that are long-distance relationships. Which they normally wouldn't have considered, but because, it was, once you're on Zoom, you could be anywhere. They kind of got to know the person more. And so a couple of them are thinking of sort of now moving down.

Lou (ESFJ): So you specialize in online dating and I guess some of your clients sometimes date people they've met offline as well. How common do you think that is now?

Jenny (ESFJ): I mean, I think nearly all my clients, I'd say 98% of my clients are online dating. And I would definitely encourage them to do that because that's exposing yourself to all the single available men and women around. But it doesn't mean you can't do both. So I would encourage my clients to, if someone starts chatting you up in the supermarket respond to that. Go to that. These people are all the same people, whether they're in a coffee shop or in Starbucks or on an app or anywhere else.

So I think it's just about opening yourself up and exposing yourself to as many people, single people, as possible as you can. But the effective way to do it is through online dating because otherwise you're waiting for your Aunt Moore to say, ‘Oh, I've got a niece. My friends got a niece that you, that you might like. Maybe you could set a date’. Or you're waiting for your friends to set up a blind date, which may or may not happen. You may have run through your friends or you're sitting at home, manifesting your date through a vision board and all those things are fine. But actually, the best way is to go someplace where all the single people are saying “Hello, hi, I'd like to meet people.” And that would be your app.

Jess (INFP): The more people expose yourself to, the higher chance you have of finding someone great right?

Jenny (ESFJ): And before you had to sit around waiting for love to happen. And now with online dating, it's like we've thrown the doors open and we just say, ‘love come in’. And you've just got to follow a process, follow a system and it will happen.

Jess (INFP): How do you think that has changed the way people find love? In the sense that when you used to have to sit around and wait, you're not exposed to loads and loads of single people. Do you think actually, you know, back then people ended up with partners who they potentially weren't that compatible with, but they just kind of have to make do to some extent?

Jenny (ESFJ): I think that what online dating has done for the better, is it has exposed single people to so many people they would never have met during their normal course of life. And that's fabulous. It's really expanded their radius of possible potential mates and I think that's an amazing thing. And it's also found a whole load of them who are available and single at the exact same time that you are. It's kind of like a really big supply.  Whereas as I said before, you had to kind of wait for it to happen. And I think, in the end, we're all looking for the same thing.

Lou (ESFJ): So you also help write online dating profiles.

Jenny (ESFJ): I do. I do a lot of that too. That’s great fun.

Lou (ESFJ): What would be your main tip for someone struggling to know what to write?

Jenny (ESFJ): I think the main thing when people go wrong is that just everybody tends to list a whole long stream of all the adjectives about themselves. And then they follow up with a whole long paragraph of all their interests and hobbies and although those might be interesting. If everybody's doing that. We tend to have quite similar interests and things that we're doing. It just becomes a whole sea of lists.

And it reads really flat and dull and people just feel overwhelmed by it. So the thing I would really recommend you do, is to pick five of your top positive qualities. And then rather than just describing them as a list, ‘I'm kind and adventurous and tactile’ say, for each one of those positive attributes, write a one sentence story, showing that. So it's all about kind of show not tell. Rather than saying to someone ‘I'm really kind’, write a one sentence story and say, ‘I'm the kind of guy who would drive to Heathrow airport to pick you up if your flight got delayed.’ So you're showing them that attribute rather than telling them. Or you say rather than saying ‘I'm really warm and tactile’. You might say, ‘Oh, I'm the kind of guy who will take your hand as we cross the road. You've kind of made a little story about it. And then the whole profile really, really comes to life.

Of if rather than saying ‘I'm funny’, I mean, there's nothing worse than having to say to someone ‘I am funny’

Jess (INFP) & Lou (ESFJ): Haha

Jenny (ESFJ): But if you can say something like, ‘Oh, I was, I recently went to a fancy-dress party dressed as a frog. You know, it didn't work out well, didn't find my princess.’ Or I don't know, but you can make a little story then you show your funny. Rather than sort of telling people you're funny. So I would say that. Pick maybe your five top adjectives.

Jess (INFP): That's a great tip.

Jenny (ESFJ): And tell some stories about, about your life and include in that your interest in your hobbies and your pets or your family, or what matters to you. And then I would then maybe think about the top three adjectives that you're looking for in a guy. I make some stories up about them. I'm looking for a guy, who's the sort of guy who's going to grab my hand and I cross the road, or the sort of guy who's going to love to plan a trip to Mongolia or wherever you want to be. And then at the end, I probably add a little touch of, a bit of something, a bit warm, kind of heart connection to give them an idea of what it might be like.

Jess (INFP): How important do you think it is to have a great online dating profile?

Jenny (ESFJ): I think it's really important. I think it can really help you stand out from the sea of everybody else. And really that's all that you're looking for from a profile really is for you to stand out and have enough in it so that someone wants to contact you.

Jess (INFP): Yeah.

Jenny (ESFJ): But that's really what you're looking for is that first message, you know.

I also put questions in a profile and actually like, we call them hooks. But you know, something. So even just a really easy question. So if you've been talking about your great love of Scandinavian TV dramas or something, you might say, well, ‘What do you watch?’. Something really not exciting question, but it's something someone can easily think ‘Well, I'll answer her question. So now I can write to her.’  So you want to find some really easy question that they can respond to.

Lou (ESFJ): Yeah. It's about having that first message isn’t it? Which is the toughest part.

Jenny (ESFJ): It’s just very helpful for people who aren't necessarily so good in that very first moment in thinking more, what can I write? You know? And if you've asked a really kind of easy question…

Jess (INFP): Well, it's interesting actually, because we interviewed a really lovely couple and she said that she had basically set these rules where she was only going to respond to messages because she was pretty busy. Um, but she came across this one profile. She said it was just such a great profile, like the way he talked, like used, uh, like song lyrics, things like that. And she said, she just felt this visceral reaction. And she just had to reach out and actually they're married now.

Jenny (ESFJ): And that's what I see all the time with a really good profile, you know? And then suddenly everybody wants to feel something and if you connect with them so that they feel something and they respond and they think,’ Oh, I feel that too sometimes.’ Or ‘I think it's adorable that you feel that way about that’. People want, they don't want facts. They don't want to list of hobbies. What they want is your opinion. So they get a sense of you or your feeling, how you express yourself or what lights you up.

Jess (INFP): And what tips would you give with photos? I think quite a lot of people struggle with that.

Jenny (ESFJ): Yeah. I think all photos pretty much should have you beaming, with a nice big warm smile. Cause you'd be amazed the number of people looking really miserable. It’s your first chance so you want to look like an open invitation for someone to connect with you. So smiling, definitely. I'd say don't wear sunglasses and hats that cover your face. So then again, people can't connect with you and emote in that kind of way.

Jess (INFP): Yeah.

Jenny (ESFJ): Probably I wouldn't put 20 photos up there. I put maybe five or six photos up there. I would always have your first photo. The one that appears first, as head and shoulders so that they can really see, because you know people are often seeing them on their little mobiles. So they can really just see immediately what you look like. So maybe I'd have, two or three, maybe head and shoulder type shots or smiling. And then the other two or three, I’d definitely have one showing your whole body. So keep it because nobody wants any surprises and it doesn't matter what you look like.

Jess (INFP): And I guess like, do you think a few photos alone, a few with friends with pets, do you think?

Jenny (ESFJ): I wouldn’t particularly put other people in the shot, just because again often if people are seeing it on mobile, you don't want to have to stop and think which one is she? You haven't got that much time as people are swiping through or whatever. So I would just do you.

A pet I think is good and having a couple of shots where it's just you doing things in life. So if you're someone who loves to go on a walk on a beach, have a lovely picture of you on the beach with your dog. Or if your somebody who likes to sail, a nice action shot of you sailing or doing something. So they don’t all need to be like that, but it's nice, I think if they get a sense of you in real life. So maybe have one, two of those like that.

Some people are really not making great decisions. But eventually they'll work it out. Because at the end of the day, if you never get any response from someone something's going wrong. And it's either your profile isn't standing out or your pictures just aren’t good pictures. Nothing to do with what you look like, but just the pictures aren’t good. Like the quality isn’t good, or they’re too dark and they can't see you.

So I think the one thing I've learned from writing all these profiles for years and from all the coaching is there's always somebody for someone. And plenty of people for someone! I would never feel that I'd never meet anyone else. And I might've thought that years and years ago, I think ‘Oh, it's terribly hard to meet someone’ it's not, you've just got to do it, do it to the best of your ability and be consistent and be patient I'd say. There’s someone, well actually not just someone out there for you, there are many possible people out there for you. But you can't find them if you quit. You can't find them, if you're not online. So you've just got to be patient and stay online and then it will happen.

Jess (INFP): Yeah. It's not always a quick thing, right? We actually had someone find love like a week after we launched on the app, which is great, but like it's partly down to luck as well.

Jenny (ESFJ): For sure! Who comes along.

Jess (INFP): And it takes a long time and that's not necessarily a bad thing because if you are going to spend the rest of your life with this person, then you really want to make sure that they're right.

Jenny (ESFJ): Yeah, and it's like if you sign up for the gym, you don't think I’ll just go along once, or I’ll go for a couple of weeks and then I'm done. You just do it. That's part of what you do. And I think if you're single and you're looking for someone part of what you do is go online. It's not all of what you do. And I think also people often have this great long list of exactly what they want in a guy and particularly what they want them or guy or girl, what they want them to look like, what interests they want to have and all the rest of it. And then what I have found, in my experience, is that once you connect with somebody, all of that goes out the window, everyone's looking for love. Everybody wants to connect.

So even if you think you want a guy to that certain way, a certain height, a certain thing. And then once you meet him and you emotionally connect with someone, you don't care anymore about that. It kind of goes out the window.

Lou (ESFJ): Well emotional connection and sexual, they’re connected together aren’t they? And they both play a part in each other.

Jenny (ESFJ): It is.

Jess (INFP): Now people do meet a lot more potential partners. Do you think that people actually do end up with much more compatible partners nowadays?

Jenny (ESFJ): Yeah, I think you do, because I think you can spread your wings and just meet more people. And the more you can do that, then the better it is for you to make the right choice for yourself and make the right selection for yourself. So in that way, I'd say definitely.

Jess (INFP): Do you think people are happier? Because I guess in the past you didn't really have that - the grass is always greener thing. But now there's a higher chance of that.

Jenny (ESFJ): I don't, I think happier is not really, depending on that. I think the dependence on that is, how am I with that partner? What is my communication like with that partner? Can I actually express myself within the relationship? Do they make me feel good? Do I feel good around them? And this, those kinds of things. I don't know whether the exposure to more people in picking that one. I guess if you've got compatibility, I would say the longer then you're in a relationship, the less of an uphill battle is going to be. Because you've already got those things that are in place, you've already got your core needs met. So in that way I'd say, yes.

Jess (INFP): Do you think people have different needs now to what they did a hundred years ago?

Jenny (ESFJ): Say yes. I mean, I haven't read any study of it, but I'm sure that they have much greater, higher needs for the fun and excitement. Higher expectation of having fantastic sex, we're just exposed to so much more and see much more and what much more. And I think high expectations are way higher.

And a lot of that is also with women's independence. They don't have to stay with a man if it doesn't suit them. So I think women are probably looking around thinking, is this right for me? They’ve got much more freedom to make the right decisions for themselves.

Jess (INFP): And I guess they can have much higher expectations. Right? Like you said, if you only meet three potential partners a year through your Aunt Mabel, then it's not really like you can think ‘The sky’s the limit’.

Jenny (ESFJ):  Yes, there’s the scarcity idea, if there’s not many men around and now I've found three, because Aunt Mabel has introduced me to three. I'm just going to have to pick one of them. And now we don't have that. I think there's less of an idea of scarcity now because, there isn't, because if you're online, you'll see there are lots and lots and lots of potential men and lots of great guys. And so I think you can really take your time and choose. And not get into this ‘If I don't choose now, it's all going to go wrong’.

And I think also people before they used to literally become exclusive with one guy very, very early on. And I don't think people do so much now. And I don't think I would recommend that either. I think it's great if you just stay open. So you might sexually exclusive one guy. I think for most, most women that probably sits most women better, for safety reasons, sexual safety and health reasons. And also, just emotionally, it feels nice to know that your guy’s is not sleeping with any other girls.

I think for most women, they want sexual exclusivity, but it doesn't mean you can't go for a coffee with another guy. And you can't go drink with another guy. If you haven't yet got to that point where you're in an exclusive relationship, I would say keep meeting as many people at that early stage of dating, keep your options open. Because until you're about two, three months in, a relationship hasn’t really bedded in. So you want to stay open in that first couple of months to other people in case in the girl, does this appear or the guy does disappear. Or it doesn't quite work out.

Jess (INFP): Yeah. Do you think that would then warrant two different exclusivity talks?

Jenny (ESFJ): Yes definitely. I would suggest if you're someone who wants a long-term relationship and you're having that first conversation about sex; I would say have a conversation about sex to make sure you're both on the same page. And so you would say that for me, I know for myself, I would say, ‘well, I would want to be, if I'm sleeping with you, I would want us to be sexually exclusive.’ That's how I would want to be with a guy. So he would be aware of that.

Jess (INFP): Yeah.

Jenny (ESFJ): I don't think I’d say to him at that point, ‘I’ll still be going for coffees with other guys’ no, he doesn't need to know that, but if he asks me and he says, ‘well, if we're sexually exclusive does that mean you'll never go out for coffee with another guy?’ Yeah. You want to be honest and I would do that too. I'm just going to keep my options open a little bit until I know that we found something really special and this is going to work for us. And then when we're at that point, when everything we both want is on the table, I would then become exclusive. Committed to that one person. So maybe, two, three months in, you have some conversation. And if what I want is marriage and children, and if I know that it's on the table with this guy and he wants that too. Then I would not just commit sexually exclusive, I would then be up for being exclusive with him.

Jess (INFP): Do you see some of your clients making, I guess maybe a potential mistake of assuming exclusivity very soon?

Jenny (ESFJ): I think the mistake they make is that they think sexual exclusivity is it. And once you've got that, then, then you're automatically exclusive in terms of a relationship. And I think they're very different things. And the most valuable thing you've got is to give someone your exclusivity.

Jess (INFP): Yeah. I've made that mistake once I was quite young at the time, I think I was like 19, 20. And I was like, just assume we'd been dating maybe a month or two months. Like not that long, but I guess I just assumed. And then I found out he was dating other people, and I was like ‘Owh’.

Jenny (ESFJ): I think that’s a really common thing you know, and then you find that you've been laser focused on this one guy for two months and then he disappears for whatever reason, it doesn't work out. And then you think, ‘Oh, now I've literally just seen him for two months, nobody else. And I've got to start again’ and then I might go another one time focusing exclusively on one guy for two or three months, and then that burns out. And then it feels exhausting to keep doing that. But if you can just pace yourself and see this guy for those two months, but at the same time, keep your options open to see other guys. And again, exposing yourself to all kinds of possibilities. And then you can choose what, you know, what feels right for you. Which guy is stepping up for you? Which guy is making you feel good? Which guy are you having fun around? And you can't tell that at the beginning.

We are all putting our best part of us forward, you know, right at the start. And you can't see any of these things until later on and how it's going to pan out.

Lou (ESFJ): So then how do you know when it is the right time to take things to the next level, whether it's asking for someone's number or deciding that you want to sleep with them?

Jenny (ESFJ): I think it's fine to sleep together when both partners, or both people's expectations around sex are the same. So I think if you can date like a Rockstar, and go for a one night stand and just think I'm going in there to have sex, it's going to be this fabulous time and you have a fabulous time and you've got no expectation the other side of that, that's great. Date like a Rockstar.

So I think for that to be the right time, if what you're looking for is a long, ongoing, committed relationship. I think you want to have the conversation before you have sex, as to what it means to you to have sex. So if for you, it means once you have sex, you would want you both to be sexually exclusive. Then I think you need to lay that out on the table beforehand and say that, and then everybody knows where they are and that's great.

And, and if the guy doesn't want that, then you know, chances are, he's a nice guy. He's, he's not going to do that. And that's, that's great. He wasn't your guy.

Lou (ESFJ): I guess this is more a question for people in relationships rather than dating, but what advice do you have for keeping the flame alive?

Jenny (ESFJ): I think a little bit of unpredictability is always quite good. So that you don't get so set in your routines and in your habits. I think it works well, to be fun, to be playful, to be spontaneous. So make sure you go on trips and go on different dates and exciting dates and things taking you slightly out of your comfort zone. I think really, really helps. And I think the thing that really keeps a good relationship alive is good communication. Being able to communicate really effectively.

And I think when you can do that, you can give your full, I don't know, full fat version of yourself to a guy. You can let, if I'm talking from a woman's perspective, you can let a guy see all of you, the good, the bad and everything. And then he will feel safe to then show you, all of himself, the good, the bad, the ugly. And then you've really got something to work out. Is this going to be fabulous, and this is going to really be exciting and we can make it work? But if you're always giving the guy, the semi-skimmed version of yourself, just showing the bits of you that you think he might like, or you think might be acceptable. I think then he will do the same. And then you never really get all of you. And I think until you're both all in, it's hard to make anything last. You need all of each partner, to create the even bigger, better thing.

Jess (INFP): So is that what you would define as good communication? Kind of showing the whole of yourself to each other.

Jenny (ESFJ): Yeah. I think you want to be able to communicate what you're, what you're feeling. And I think you can create a lot of drama by, it could be from either way around, but if I just talk about it, for example, from the women's point of view. If a guy will say something like, ‘how are you?’ And then woman goes ‘fine’ and she's clearly not fine, she's clearly furious. But she's not showing it. She's just trying to cover it up and shove it down. That creates drama to a guy. Because he's not stupid, guys are very sensitive. He knows that he's not getting the whole of what she's feeling, but she's kind of clouding it over and trying to sort of shut it down. And that is what really stops good connection and bonding happening. Whereas if the woman can say, ‘I feel angry’ because of whatever situation, then guys can accept that. Guys love emotion, they are really happy to have your emotions, but what's really difficult is when you shut them down and try to pretend, they're not there and vice versa. So I think both partners need to be really expressing who they are and be able to be vulnerable and show, the not so nice parts of themselves.

And then the hope is that the other partner will love them anyway.

Jess (INFP): Yeah, yeah, no, one's perfect.

Jenny (ESFJ): No, one's perfect. No, and it's finding is there enough of the good stuff to make it a fabulous relationship and are the downsides of that person, not so great that I can't live with it, that it's not possible to be here. And if you get that kind of combination then yeah, then you get a great relationship.

Lou (ESFJ): Yeah. So we know you're married

Jenny (ESFJ): Yes, married a long time

Lou (ESFJ): Has becoming a dating coach helped your relationship?

Jenny (ESFJ): Yes. Hugely. Well, I don't know. It's probably the studying, the research and the studying of becoming of a dating coach. Because I've been doing this quite a long time. Yeah. I'm married to what I would call a super, super masculine energy guy. He is not a fabulous communicator and has quite low empathy.

I would say. He would say as well. And so I think being a good dating coach and having studied communication and all these kinds of things, I think I've become super skilled in terms of communicating with him. So I think I've become better and better in terms of expressing what I'm really feeling what's really going on for me. And I think I've learned how to express it in a way where I'm not blaming him. So if something, I don't know, let's take an example. This isn't particularly one, but if it's something like he kept turning up late, every time we were due to meet or something like that. Rather than me saying, ‘You're always late, you're so selfish, you’re so whatever.’ I've learned that a better way to get what you're feeling across I would just not use the ‘you’ so I'm not blaming him. So I would speak more in a way where I'm expressing my own feelings. So I'd say, ‘I feel angry when I'm left sitting in a pub and there's nobody here.’ So haven't used the word ‘you’ – ‘You I didn't do it’, I just said, ‘I feel angry’ or ‘I feel disappointed when I'm just sitting on my own, drinking, or making a gin and tonic all alone.’ They don't then get immediately defensive and shut down. And once they got defensive shut down, nothing good can kind of happen from there. Whereas if you could simply express your feelings that you feel angry or you felt lonely or you felt whatever you felt, and then you can say, what do you think? John says, he'll say, ‘I'm really sorry. I'll make sure I won't do that again.’ Or I’ll make it up to you, let's go out for dinner or whatever.

But I think it's learning how to express yourself fully, what you're feeling, without trying to cover up bits of it and doing it in a way that doesn't send blame to the other person. And I think once I'm communicating better, and in a warmer way I suppose. I think they automatically shift, so I would say my husband has automatically, his communication has improved. Because if I make it safe for me to show him all my feelings that immediately makes him feel safe to share his feelings. So he has improved as well in terms of communication. So I think all those are skills that I've learned as a dating coach and I would teach my clients and would be really, really beneficial for myself.

Jess (INFP): So yeah. What would you say to people who feel really disillusioned with online dating? So they've had people ghost them or they've had some not great dates. What would you say to them?

Jenny (ESFJ): I would say get a dating coach to help you navigate through that whole process. I think if something's not working for you online dating it's maybe because you're not quite doing it well. In terms of the profiles or the photos or the messaging or being in your feminine energy of what you want is a masculine energy man. I think if somebody is messaging you and then they just disappear, that's fine. You know, that happens all of the time. No one owes you anything. You're just all just chatting around in this big internet. I think it's different, as we were saying before, if you're in some relationship and you’re really sort of dating in real life. You'd expect them to let you know, but if people just disappear online, then that's absolutely no big deal. Nothing is real until it's real. Nothing's real until you're sort of two- or three-months in.

Jess (INFP): Would you say, they're all great people out there, you just have to stick at it?

Jenny (ESFJ): A hundred percent I would, and I think there are great guys out there and these may be the guys who are just sending you the ‘Hi’, the ‘Hi babe’ and they might just be a bit clueless on how to date. They're not good at it either necessarily. I think when you're online dating, you get everything, as you would, if you went into a bar in real life. So you, the great guys, the not so great guys and maybe the toxic goes that you don't want to see. And I think it's just a way of learning how to quickly see the red flags and move on and, and then stop and spend time and allow things to develop sort of, slowly and organically with the great guys. And there are so many great guys out there.

Lou (ESFJ): And just to finish with, if you could give one piece of dating advice, what would it be?

Jenny (ESFJ): Definitely go online. Definitely. Definitely. Because that's the way everybody, that's where all the single people are. That's where they're all showing up because they want to meet you.

Jess (INFP): And we're not paying you to say this as well.

Jenny (ESFJ): You’re not paying me to say this, but I think that will change your life in terms of meeting people.

Jess (INFP): Cool. Well, thank you so much.

Jenny (ESFJ): You’re so welcome

Jess (INFP): This has been really great to chat and yeah just really interesting.

Lou (ESFJ): Thank you for listening to personality love lab. If you're in a relationship and would like to be featured on our podcast, please email us at hello@sosyncd.com, the email address can also be found in the show notes.
Jess (INFP): And if you're single sign up to So Syncd for free today to find your compatible personality type. You can download So Syncd from the Apple app store or the Google play store.